p aud
Answer
You don't HAVE to....BUT...it WILL run better. The 96's run extremely lean, which make them run hot, remapping the injection will cool the engine and oil temp and make it run better.
Also, adding an air cleaner, exhaust, and having it TUNED with the Screamin Eagle Super Tuner will give you a an additional 12-15 hp.
Here are some clips from answers to similar questions...
They guys you were talking to are kind of right. With the pipes you are looking at, the bike really does need to have a hi-flo air cleaner put on. The dramatic decrease in restriction and the short length are the reason. Shorter pipes generally cause a drop in power in the low and mid-range, but can be compensated for somewhat by adding a set of Samson Torque Cones. The air cleaner will be needed to let more air in also to help compensate for the increase in exhaust flow. The Screamin Eagle air cleaner is ok, but the Arlen Ness Big Sucker (get the Stage 2 version) is better and about the same price. The S/E uses a shallow, dry filter material similar to a fiber glass mat, the Big Sucker uses a deeper K&N filter that flows considerably more air than the S/E. The stock HD air cleaner is THE most power restricting part on the bike. If you pull off the cover and look at the element, you will see why...it literally starves the engine for air, the reason for this from the factory...EPA NOISE pollution restrictions.
Now this is the MAJOR factor in the situation....DO NOT let anyone talk you into a Power Commander or Vance & Hines Fuel Pak, or ANY type of "piggy back"....FUEL...module!!!
You want the Screamin Eagle Super Tuner!!!
There are several reasons for this.
1. There is almost no room on a Softail to mount an add-on module, it basically get jammed and stuffed under the seat. "piggy back" modules plug in-line between the bikes computer and the wire harness, they are big and bulky and create extra wiring that is a BITCH to mount, route and work around.
2. They do not do anything except control fuel, they have no timing or rev limit adjustments. The Power Commander 5 for 09-up bikes does have an Auto-Tune module that will allow the system to adjust the fuel by itself while you ride...BUT it is an additional couple hundred dollars, and you have to add yet another module to allow for timing adjustments...now you have 2 additional modules to try and figure how and where to mount. All together you will end up having arouns $1000 in modules.
The Screamin Eagle Super Tuner is basically nothing but software that reprograms the stock computer. It is a box that goes between 2 cables that link the bike to a PC. Once the computer is programmed and mapped on the dyno, you unplug it....nothing to mount. DO NOT LOSE THE BOX!!!!....if you do and need further tuning in the future for mods done later, you will have to buy another Tuner. The Tuner, once plugged in to a bike is "married" to that bike only and will not work on any other bikes. The Super Tuner has virtually unlimited tuning capabilites. It will allow for fuel mapping, accelerator pump feature for better throttle response, fully adjustable rev limit (do not rev a Softail past 6200, past that, the balancers spin too fast and can fly apart and destroy the engine), fully adjustable timing advance and curve tables, etc. I was amazed at what this thing can do when I was trained on it.
Having the timing properly set makes all the difference in the world. We tested bikes with stock timing and rev limits that had the fuel dialed in perfect for max power, then loaded in performance timing maps and had gains of 5-15 hp & tq.
And there is one more benefit to the Super Tuner compared to the others....The Tuner is about $400, the same as the others, bt no added expenses from add-on modules...its all built in.
Doing all of this, and having the bike tuned, WILL make it run cooler!!! The Twin Cams run hotter than the older Evo's like Mike has. The reasons are being tuned VERY lean for EPA standards and the Twin Cams use oil jets under the pistons. These jets squirt oil onto the bottom of the piston to help cool it. Stock engines run sooooo lean that they cause excessive heat.....here is the oxymoron....because they are so lean, HD designed the oil jets to cool the pistons....what actually happens is the pistons HEAT the oil!!!....tune the engine, richen it up, and the piston cools down, now, the oil can do its job and cool the piston....double cooling effect. Proper tuning will decreae oil temp by as much as 20-25 degress and promote longer, more reliable engine life...and you will FEEL the power increase.....generally, depending on the bike, combination of pipes and air cleaner, and how good the guy tuning the bike is, you can expect 10-15 hp & tq increase.
The stock ECM is NOT relearn capable, it will only self compensate under the extremely NARROW parameters by which it was programmed...it does this by the use of O2 sensors....NEVER EVER eliminate the O2 sensors!!!!!
V&H Fuel Pack, Ness Fuel Controller....are junk!!!..........Read below........it is answer to another similar question regarding injection tuning, also included is info on oil to help run COOLER...cooler + better performance.......Due to the EXTREMELY LIMITED mounting space for add-on "piggy-back" fuel controllers on a Softail.....I HIGHLY AND STRONGLY recommend the Sreamin Eagle Super Tuner.....it is only software that reprograms the ECM with nothing needing to be mounted to the bike. The Super Tuner will allow for infinite adjustments to the air/fuel ratio, ignition timing, rev-limiter, acellerator pump feature, engine decel enleanment to eliminate exhaust popping, etc.
And to make it run BETTER & COOLER.......here is some info on proper tuning........an answer to a previous question......
DO YOU HAVE A HI-FLO AIR CLEANER AND PIPES ON THE BIKE???.....IF SO, DID YOU HAVE THE ECM REMAPPED BY HD OR HAVE A SUPER TUNER OR POWER COMMANDER ON IT????...........THIS IS VERY VERY IMPORTANT!!!!!!
HD'S ARE SET UP TO RUN VERY VERY LEAN DUE TO EPA REGULATIONS!!!!!!! RUNNING LEAN CAUSES THE ENGINE TO RUN HOT!!!!!!........THERE ARE OIL JETS THAT SQUIRT OIL ON THE BOTTOM SIDE OF THE PISTON TO COOL THE PISTON.....THIS HEATS UP THE OIL..........RICHEN IT UP, THE PISTON WILL RUN COOLER....THE OIL WILL RUN COOLER.
Even if the bike is COMPLETELY STOCK.......have HD do a Stage 1 download to the ECM......if you have a Power Commander or Super Tuner on the bike..........get it dyno TUNED.....it will increase your performance and make the engine run OPTIMALLY..................her... is some info about "downloads compared to the Super Tuner.......
You want the Screamin Eagle SUPER TUNER!!!!.......and have it Dyno TUNED.....don't sttle for just having the base map loaded. The difference between being tuned and a base map is like night and day. The base maps are just that...a base to which to work form. Every engine is as individaul as we are as humans, they each require a little finesse and tuning to make them perform optimally. The Super Tuner will also allow for easier tuning for any future upgrade you may make.
A Stage 1 download is nothing more than a GENERIC map from HD that is "ok" for all bikes....this is CRAP!!!......the Stage 1 download was specifically made for a HD with Screamin Eagle Mufflers and Air Cleaner......not all mufflers (or complete exhaust systems) flow exactly the same and not all Air Cleaners flow exactly the same...meaning, if you change ANYTHING on the exhaust and intake that the Stage 1 was not designed for, it wil not work as well.....like I said every engine is DIFFERENT.
As far as power output goes....it will vary as to what components are used and how well it is tuned....but on an average from completely STOCK to an upgrade of exhaust/air cleaner, super tuner, about 12-15 horsepower........At how many miles did you start running synthetic? You should never run synthetic until at least 2500.
Which Power Commander was installed....the O2 eliminator ( DO NOT USE THIS!!!...THE O2 SENSORS ARE THERE FOR A REASON....O2 eliminators should ONLY be used for RACING applications!!!!) or the new PC 5 w/ wide band O2 sensors? (The WIDE BAND IS THE BEST fuel controller on the market for Big Twins....BUT requires a fair amount of room to install it along with extra room needed for the add-on ign control module), did you have the separate ADJUSTABLE IGNTION MODULE AND/OR AUTO TUNE MODULE (09-newer) installed also....this will HELP ALOT!!!!....the HD Super Tuner is good, but it runs narrow band O2 sensors (i like these for Sportsters because there is no module to install and conceal).....BUT it does have ignition adjustments the PC doesn't have by itself (have to add it extra with the PC5).
Either way, it sounds like you need to have the bike properly tuned....if they just simply loaded a map....that is NO GOOD...a map is just a starting point for proper tuning.
You air cleaner...did you mean BIG SUCKER???...if so good choice.....the Screamin EEagle air cleaner is way better than stock HD.....but does not hold a candle to the DEEPER K&N filter Ness uses......GOOD CHOICE.
You don't HAVE to....BUT...it WILL run better. The 96's run extremely lean, which make them run hot, remapping the injection will cool the engine and oil temp and make it run better.
Also, adding an air cleaner, exhaust, and having it TUNED with the Screamin Eagle Super Tuner will give you a an additional 12-15 hp.
Here are some clips from answers to similar questions...
They guys you were talking to are kind of right. With the pipes you are looking at, the bike really does need to have a hi-flo air cleaner put on. The dramatic decrease in restriction and the short length are the reason. Shorter pipes generally cause a drop in power in the low and mid-range, but can be compensated for somewhat by adding a set of Samson Torque Cones. The air cleaner will be needed to let more air in also to help compensate for the increase in exhaust flow. The Screamin Eagle air cleaner is ok, but the Arlen Ness Big Sucker (get the Stage 2 version) is better and about the same price. The S/E uses a shallow, dry filter material similar to a fiber glass mat, the Big Sucker uses a deeper K&N filter that flows considerably more air than the S/E. The stock HD air cleaner is THE most power restricting part on the bike. If you pull off the cover and look at the element, you will see why...it literally starves the engine for air, the reason for this from the factory...EPA NOISE pollution restrictions.
Now this is the MAJOR factor in the situation....DO NOT let anyone talk you into a Power Commander or Vance & Hines Fuel Pak, or ANY type of "piggy back"....FUEL...module!!!
You want the Screamin Eagle Super Tuner!!!
There are several reasons for this.
1. There is almost no room on a Softail to mount an add-on module, it basically get jammed and stuffed under the seat. "piggy back" modules plug in-line between the bikes computer and the wire harness, they are big and bulky and create extra wiring that is a BITCH to mount, route and work around.
2. They do not do anything except control fuel, they have no timing or rev limit adjustments. The Power Commander 5 for 09-up bikes does have an Auto-Tune module that will allow the system to adjust the fuel by itself while you ride...BUT it is an additional couple hundred dollars, and you have to add yet another module to allow for timing adjustments...now you have 2 additional modules to try and figure how and where to mount. All together you will end up having arouns $1000 in modules.
The Screamin Eagle Super Tuner is basically nothing but software that reprograms the stock computer. It is a box that goes between 2 cables that link the bike to a PC. Once the computer is programmed and mapped on the dyno, you unplug it....nothing to mount. DO NOT LOSE THE BOX!!!!....if you do and need further tuning in the future for mods done later, you will have to buy another Tuner. The Tuner, once plugged in to a bike is "married" to that bike only and will not work on any other bikes. The Super Tuner has virtually unlimited tuning capabilites. It will allow for fuel mapping, accelerator pump feature for better throttle response, fully adjustable rev limit (do not rev a Softail past 6200, past that, the balancers spin too fast and can fly apart and destroy the engine), fully adjustable timing advance and curve tables, etc. I was amazed at what this thing can do when I was trained on it.
Having the timing properly set makes all the difference in the world. We tested bikes with stock timing and rev limits that had the fuel dialed in perfect for max power, then loaded in performance timing maps and had gains of 5-15 hp & tq.
And there is one more benefit to the Super Tuner compared to the others....The Tuner is about $400, the same as the others, bt no added expenses from add-on modules...its all built in.
Doing all of this, and having the bike tuned, WILL make it run cooler!!! The Twin Cams run hotter than the older Evo's like Mike has. The reasons are being tuned VERY lean for EPA standards and the Twin Cams use oil jets under the pistons. These jets squirt oil onto the bottom of the piston to help cool it. Stock engines run sooooo lean that they cause excessive heat.....here is the oxymoron....because they are so lean, HD designed the oil jets to cool the pistons....what actually happens is the pistons HEAT the oil!!!....tune the engine, richen it up, and the piston cools down, now, the oil can do its job and cool the piston....double cooling effect. Proper tuning will decreae oil temp by as much as 20-25 degress and promote longer, more reliable engine life...and you will FEEL the power increase.....generally, depending on the bike, combination of pipes and air cleaner, and how good the guy tuning the bike is, you can expect 10-15 hp & tq increase.
The stock ECM is NOT relearn capable, it will only self compensate under the extremely NARROW parameters by which it was programmed...it does this by the use of O2 sensors....NEVER EVER eliminate the O2 sensors!!!!!
V&H Fuel Pack, Ness Fuel Controller....are junk!!!..........Read below........it is answer to another similar question regarding injection tuning, also included is info on oil to help run COOLER...cooler + better performance.......Due to the EXTREMELY LIMITED mounting space for add-on "piggy-back" fuel controllers on a Softail.....I HIGHLY AND STRONGLY recommend the Sreamin Eagle Super Tuner.....it is only software that reprograms the ECM with nothing needing to be mounted to the bike. The Super Tuner will allow for infinite adjustments to the air/fuel ratio, ignition timing, rev-limiter, acellerator pump feature, engine decel enleanment to eliminate exhaust popping, etc.
And to make it run BETTER & COOLER.......here is some info on proper tuning........an answer to a previous question......
DO YOU HAVE A HI-FLO AIR CLEANER AND PIPES ON THE BIKE???.....IF SO, DID YOU HAVE THE ECM REMAPPED BY HD OR HAVE A SUPER TUNER OR POWER COMMANDER ON IT????...........THIS IS VERY VERY IMPORTANT!!!!!!
HD'S ARE SET UP TO RUN VERY VERY LEAN DUE TO EPA REGULATIONS!!!!!!! RUNNING LEAN CAUSES THE ENGINE TO RUN HOT!!!!!!........THERE ARE OIL JETS THAT SQUIRT OIL ON THE BOTTOM SIDE OF THE PISTON TO COOL THE PISTON.....THIS HEATS UP THE OIL..........RICHEN IT UP, THE PISTON WILL RUN COOLER....THE OIL WILL RUN COOLER.
Even if the bike is COMPLETELY STOCK.......have HD do a Stage 1 download to the ECM......if you have a Power Commander or Super Tuner on the bike..........get it dyno TUNED.....it will increase your performance and make the engine run OPTIMALLY..................her... is some info about "downloads compared to the Super Tuner.......
You want the Screamin Eagle SUPER TUNER!!!!.......and have it Dyno TUNED.....don't sttle for just having the base map loaded. The difference between being tuned and a base map is like night and day. The base maps are just that...a base to which to work form. Every engine is as individaul as we are as humans, they each require a little finesse and tuning to make them perform optimally. The Super Tuner will also allow for easier tuning for any future upgrade you may make.
A Stage 1 download is nothing more than a GENERIC map from HD that is "ok" for all bikes....this is CRAP!!!......the Stage 1 download was specifically made for a HD with Screamin Eagle Mufflers and Air Cleaner......not all mufflers (or complete exhaust systems) flow exactly the same and not all Air Cleaners flow exactly the same...meaning, if you change ANYTHING on the exhaust and intake that the Stage 1 was not designed for, it wil not work as well.....like I said every engine is DIFFERENT.
As far as power output goes....it will vary as to what components are used and how well it is tuned....but on an average from completely STOCK to an upgrade of exhaust/air cleaner, super tuner, about 12-15 horsepower........At how many miles did you start running synthetic? You should never run synthetic until at least 2500.
Which Power Commander was installed....the O2 eliminator ( DO NOT USE THIS!!!...THE O2 SENSORS ARE THERE FOR A REASON....O2 eliminators should ONLY be used for RACING applications!!!!) or the new PC 5 w/ wide band O2 sensors? (The WIDE BAND IS THE BEST fuel controller on the market for Big Twins....BUT requires a fair amount of room to install it along with extra room needed for the add-on ign control module), did you have the separate ADJUSTABLE IGNTION MODULE AND/OR AUTO TUNE MODULE (09-newer) installed also....this will HELP ALOT!!!!....the HD Super Tuner is good, but it runs narrow band O2 sensors (i like these for Sportsters because there is no module to install and conceal).....BUT it does have ignition adjustments the PC doesn't have by itself (have to add it extra with the PC5).
Either way, it sounds like you need to have the bike properly tuned....if they just simply loaded a map....that is NO GOOD...a map is just a starting point for proper tuning.
You air cleaner...did you mean BIG SUCKER???...if so good choice.....the Screamin EEagle air cleaner is way better than stock HD.....but does not hold a candle to the DEEPER K&N filter Ness uses......GOOD CHOICE.
looking to put on true dual rinehart exhaust on my 07 ultra classic any pros or cons?
bubba
i heard it doesnt give off as much heat with true duals
Answer
That system is a pretty decent performer...BUT....You WILL need to remap the injection with an exhaust change of that degree...a hi-flo air cleaner should also be added if it hasn't aleady been done.
HD's "Stage 1 Download" will NOT be sufficient for this system...you will need the Screamin Eagle Super Tuner and have it DYNO TUNED....
you can email me here through my profile if you ahve any questions...I also have some other recommendations I could make, but not enough room here...
An answer to a similar question..
They guys you were talking to are kind of right. With the pipes you are looking at, the bike really does need to have a hi-flo air cleaner put on. The dramatic decrease in restriction and the short length are the reason. Shorter pipes generally cause a drop in power in the low and mid-range, but can be compensated for somewhat by adding a set of Samson Torque Cones. The air cleaner will be needed to let more air in also to help compensate for the increase in exhaust flow. The Screamin Eagle air cleaner is ok, but the Arlen Ness Big Sucker (get the Stage 2 version) is better and about the same price. The S/E uses a shallow, dry filter material similar to a fiber glass mat, the Big Sucker uses a deeper K&N filter that flows considerably more air than the S/E. The stock HD air cleaner is THE most power restricting part on the bike. If you pull off the cover and look at the element, you will see why...it literally starves the engine for air, the reason for this from the factory...EPA NOISE pollution restrictions.
Now this is the MAJOR factor in the situation....DO NOT let anyone talk you into a Power Commander or Vance & Hines Fuel Pak, or ANY type of "piggy back"....FUEL...module!!!
You want the Screamin Eagle Super Tuner!!!
There are several reasons for this.
1. There is almost no room on a Softail to mount an add-on module, it basically get jammed and stuffed under the seat. "piggy back" modules plug in-line between the bikes computer and the wire harness, they are big and bulky and create extra wiring that is a ***** to mount, route and work around.
2. They do not do anything except control fuel, they have no timing or rev limit adjustments. The Power Commander 5 for 09-up bikes does have an Auto-Tune module that will allow the system to adjust the fuel by itself while you ride...BUT it is an additional couple hundred dollars, and you have to add yet another module to allow for timing adjustments...now you have 2 additional modules to try and figure how and where to mount. All together you will end up having arouns $1000 in modules.
The Screamin Eagle Super Tuner is basically nothing but software that reprograms the stock computer. It is a box that goes between 2 cables that link the bike to a PC. Once the computer is programmed and mapped on the dyno, you unplug it....nothing to mount. DO NOT LOSE THE BOX!!!!....if you do and need further tuning in the future for mods done later, you will have to buy another Tuner. The Tuner, once plugged in to a bike is "married" to that bike only and will not work on any other bikes. The Super Tuner has virtually unlimited tuning capabilites. It will allow for fuel mapping, accelerator pump feature for better throttle response, fully adjustable rev limit (do not rev a Softail past 6200, past that, the balancers spin too fast and can fly apart and destroy the engine), fully adjustable timing advance and curve tables, etc. I was amazed at what this thing can do when I was trained on it.
Having the timing properly set makes all the difference in the world. We tested bikes with stock timing and rev limits that had the fuel dialed in perfect for max power, then loaded in performance timing maps and had gains of 5-15 hp & tq.
And there is one more benefit to the Super Tuner compared to the others....The Tuner is about $400, the same as the others, bt no added expenses from add-on modules...its all built in.
Doing all of this, and having the bike tuned, WILL make it run cooler!!! The Twin Cams run hotter than the older Evo's like Mike has. The reasons are being tuned VERY lean for EPA standards and the Twin Cams use oil jets under the pistons. These jets squirt oil onto the bottom of the piston to help cool it. Stock engines run sooooo lean that they cause excessive heat.....here is the oxymoron....because they are so lean, HD designed the oil jets to cool the pistons....what actually happens is the pistons HEAT the oil!!!....tune the engine, richen it up, and the piston cools down, now, the oil can do its job and cool the piston....double cooling effect. Proper tuning will decreae oil temp by as much as 20-25 degress and promote longer, more reliable engine life...and you will FEEL the power increase.....generally, depending on the bike, combination of pipes and air cleaner, and how good the guy tuning the bike is, you can expect 10-15 hp & tq increase.
That system is a pretty decent performer...BUT....You WILL need to remap the injection with an exhaust change of that degree...a hi-flo air cleaner should also be added if it hasn't aleady been done.
HD's "Stage 1 Download" will NOT be sufficient for this system...you will need the Screamin Eagle Super Tuner and have it DYNO TUNED....
you can email me here through my profile if you ahve any questions...I also have some other recommendations I could make, but not enough room here...
An answer to a similar question..
They guys you were talking to are kind of right. With the pipes you are looking at, the bike really does need to have a hi-flo air cleaner put on. The dramatic decrease in restriction and the short length are the reason. Shorter pipes generally cause a drop in power in the low and mid-range, but can be compensated for somewhat by adding a set of Samson Torque Cones. The air cleaner will be needed to let more air in also to help compensate for the increase in exhaust flow. The Screamin Eagle air cleaner is ok, but the Arlen Ness Big Sucker (get the Stage 2 version) is better and about the same price. The S/E uses a shallow, dry filter material similar to a fiber glass mat, the Big Sucker uses a deeper K&N filter that flows considerably more air than the S/E. The stock HD air cleaner is THE most power restricting part on the bike. If you pull off the cover and look at the element, you will see why...it literally starves the engine for air, the reason for this from the factory...EPA NOISE pollution restrictions.
Now this is the MAJOR factor in the situation....DO NOT let anyone talk you into a Power Commander or Vance & Hines Fuel Pak, or ANY type of "piggy back"....FUEL...module!!!
You want the Screamin Eagle Super Tuner!!!
There are several reasons for this.
1. There is almost no room on a Softail to mount an add-on module, it basically get jammed and stuffed under the seat. "piggy back" modules plug in-line between the bikes computer and the wire harness, they are big and bulky and create extra wiring that is a ***** to mount, route and work around.
2. They do not do anything except control fuel, they have no timing or rev limit adjustments. The Power Commander 5 for 09-up bikes does have an Auto-Tune module that will allow the system to adjust the fuel by itself while you ride...BUT it is an additional couple hundred dollars, and you have to add yet another module to allow for timing adjustments...now you have 2 additional modules to try and figure how and where to mount. All together you will end up having arouns $1000 in modules.
The Screamin Eagle Super Tuner is basically nothing but software that reprograms the stock computer. It is a box that goes between 2 cables that link the bike to a PC. Once the computer is programmed and mapped on the dyno, you unplug it....nothing to mount. DO NOT LOSE THE BOX!!!!....if you do and need further tuning in the future for mods done later, you will have to buy another Tuner. The Tuner, once plugged in to a bike is "married" to that bike only and will not work on any other bikes. The Super Tuner has virtually unlimited tuning capabilites. It will allow for fuel mapping, accelerator pump feature for better throttle response, fully adjustable rev limit (do not rev a Softail past 6200, past that, the balancers spin too fast and can fly apart and destroy the engine), fully adjustable timing advance and curve tables, etc. I was amazed at what this thing can do when I was trained on it.
Having the timing properly set makes all the difference in the world. We tested bikes with stock timing and rev limits that had the fuel dialed in perfect for max power, then loaded in performance timing maps and had gains of 5-15 hp & tq.
And there is one more benefit to the Super Tuner compared to the others....The Tuner is about $400, the same as the others, bt no added expenses from add-on modules...its all built in.
Doing all of this, and having the bike tuned, WILL make it run cooler!!! The Twin Cams run hotter than the older Evo's like Mike has. The reasons are being tuned VERY lean for EPA standards and the Twin Cams use oil jets under the pistons. These jets squirt oil onto the bottom of the piston to help cool it. Stock engines run sooooo lean that they cause excessive heat.....here is the oxymoron....because they are so lean, HD designed the oil jets to cool the pistons....what actually happens is the pistons HEAT the oil!!!....tune the engine, richen it up, and the piston cools down, now, the oil can do its job and cool the piston....double cooling effect. Proper tuning will decreae oil temp by as much as 20-25 degress and promote longer, more reliable engine life...and you will FEEL the power increase.....generally, depending on the bike, combination of pipes and air cleaner, and how good the guy tuning the bike is, you can expect 10-15 hp & tq increase.
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