bubba
i heard it doesnt give off as much heat with true duals
Answer
That system is a pretty decent performer...BUT....You WILL need to remap the injection with an exhaust change of that degree...a hi-flo air cleaner should also be added if it hasn't aleady been done.
HD's "Stage 1 Download" will NOT be sufficient for this system...you will need the Screamin Eagle Super Tuner and have it DYNO TUNED....
you can email me here through my profile if you ahve any questions...I also have some other recommendations I could make, but not enough room here...
An answer to a similar question..
They guys you were talking to are kind of right. With the pipes you are looking at, the bike really does need to have a hi-flo air cleaner put on. The dramatic decrease in restriction and the short length are the reason. Shorter pipes generally cause a drop in power in the low and mid-range, but can be compensated for somewhat by adding a set of Samson Torque Cones. The air cleaner will be needed to let more air in also to help compensate for the increase in exhaust flow. The Screamin Eagle air cleaner is ok, but the Arlen Ness Big Sucker (get the Stage 2 version) is better and about the same price. The S/E uses a shallow, dry filter material similar to a fiber glass mat, the Big Sucker uses a deeper K&N filter that flows considerably more air than the S/E. The stock HD air cleaner is THE most power restricting part on the bike. If you pull off the cover and look at the element, you will see why...it literally starves the engine for air, the reason for this from the factory...EPA NOISE pollution restrictions.
Now this is the MAJOR factor in the situation....DO NOT let anyone talk you into a Power Commander or Vance & Hines Fuel Pak, or ANY type of "piggy back"....FUEL...module!!!
You want the Screamin Eagle Super Tuner!!!
There are several reasons for this.
1. There is almost no room on a Softail to mount an add-on module, it basically get jammed and stuffed under the seat. "piggy back" modules plug in-line between the bikes computer and the wire harness, they are big and bulky and create extra wiring that is a ***** to mount, route and work around.
2. They do not do anything except control fuel, they have no timing or rev limit adjustments. The Power Commander 5 for 09-up bikes does have an Auto-Tune module that will allow the system to adjust the fuel by itself while you ride...BUT it is an additional couple hundred dollars, and you have to add yet another module to allow for timing adjustments...now you have 2 additional modules to try and figure how and where to mount. All together you will end up having arouns $1000 in modules.
The Screamin Eagle Super Tuner is basically nothing but software that reprograms the stock computer. It is a box that goes between 2 cables that link the bike to a PC. Once the computer is programmed and mapped on the dyno, you unplug it....nothing to mount. DO NOT LOSE THE BOX!!!!....if you do and need further tuning in the future for mods done later, you will have to buy another Tuner. The Tuner, once plugged in to a bike is "married" to that bike only and will not work on any other bikes. The Super Tuner has virtually unlimited tuning capabilites. It will allow for fuel mapping, accelerator pump feature for better throttle response, fully adjustable rev limit (do not rev a Softail past 6200, past that, the balancers spin too fast and can fly apart and destroy the engine), fully adjustable timing advance and curve tables, etc. I was amazed at what this thing can do when I was trained on it.
Having the timing properly set makes all the difference in the world. We tested bikes with stock timing and rev limits that had the fuel dialed in perfect for max power, then loaded in performance timing maps and had gains of 5-15 hp & tq.
And there is one more benefit to the Super Tuner compared to the others....The Tuner is about $400, the same as the others, bt no added expenses from add-on modules...its all built in.
Doing all of this, and having the bike tuned, WILL make it run cooler!!! The Twin Cams run hotter than the older Evo's like Mike has. The reasons are being tuned VERY lean for EPA standards and the Twin Cams use oil jets under the pistons. These jets squirt oil onto the bottom of the piston to help cool it. Stock engines run sooooo lean that they cause excessive heat.....here is the oxymoron....because they are so lean, HD designed the oil jets to cool the pistons....what actually happens is the pistons HEAT the oil!!!....tune the engine, richen it up, and the piston cools down, now, the oil can do its job and cool the piston....double cooling effect. Proper tuning will decreae oil temp by as much as 20-25 degress and promote longer, more reliable engine life...and you will FEEL the power increase.....generally, depending on the bike, combination of pipes and air cleaner, and how good the guy tuning the bike is, you can expect 10-15 hp & tq increase.
That system is a pretty decent performer...BUT....You WILL need to remap the injection with an exhaust change of that degree...a hi-flo air cleaner should also be added if it hasn't aleady been done.
HD's "Stage 1 Download" will NOT be sufficient for this system...you will need the Screamin Eagle Super Tuner and have it DYNO TUNED....
you can email me here through my profile if you ahve any questions...I also have some other recommendations I could make, but not enough room here...
An answer to a similar question..
They guys you were talking to are kind of right. With the pipes you are looking at, the bike really does need to have a hi-flo air cleaner put on. The dramatic decrease in restriction and the short length are the reason. Shorter pipes generally cause a drop in power in the low and mid-range, but can be compensated for somewhat by adding a set of Samson Torque Cones. The air cleaner will be needed to let more air in also to help compensate for the increase in exhaust flow. The Screamin Eagle air cleaner is ok, but the Arlen Ness Big Sucker (get the Stage 2 version) is better and about the same price. The S/E uses a shallow, dry filter material similar to a fiber glass mat, the Big Sucker uses a deeper K&N filter that flows considerably more air than the S/E. The stock HD air cleaner is THE most power restricting part on the bike. If you pull off the cover and look at the element, you will see why...it literally starves the engine for air, the reason for this from the factory...EPA NOISE pollution restrictions.
Now this is the MAJOR factor in the situation....DO NOT let anyone talk you into a Power Commander or Vance & Hines Fuel Pak, or ANY type of "piggy back"....FUEL...module!!!
You want the Screamin Eagle Super Tuner!!!
There are several reasons for this.
1. There is almost no room on a Softail to mount an add-on module, it basically get jammed and stuffed under the seat. "piggy back" modules plug in-line between the bikes computer and the wire harness, they are big and bulky and create extra wiring that is a ***** to mount, route and work around.
2. They do not do anything except control fuel, they have no timing or rev limit adjustments. The Power Commander 5 for 09-up bikes does have an Auto-Tune module that will allow the system to adjust the fuel by itself while you ride...BUT it is an additional couple hundred dollars, and you have to add yet another module to allow for timing adjustments...now you have 2 additional modules to try and figure how and where to mount. All together you will end up having arouns $1000 in modules.
The Screamin Eagle Super Tuner is basically nothing but software that reprograms the stock computer. It is a box that goes between 2 cables that link the bike to a PC. Once the computer is programmed and mapped on the dyno, you unplug it....nothing to mount. DO NOT LOSE THE BOX!!!!....if you do and need further tuning in the future for mods done later, you will have to buy another Tuner. The Tuner, once plugged in to a bike is "married" to that bike only and will not work on any other bikes. The Super Tuner has virtually unlimited tuning capabilites. It will allow for fuel mapping, accelerator pump feature for better throttle response, fully adjustable rev limit (do not rev a Softail past 6200, past that, the balancers spin too fast and can fly apart and destroy the engine), fully adjustable timing advance and curve tables, etc. I was amazed at what this thing can do when I was trained on it.
Having the timing properly set makes all the difference in the world. We tested bikes with stock timing and rev limits that had the fuel dialed in perfect for max power, then loaded in performance timing maps and had gains of 5-15 hp & tq.
And there is one more benefit to the Super Tuner compared to the others....The Tuner is about $400, the same as the others, bt no added expenses from add-on modules...its all built in.
Doing all of this, and having the bike tuned, WILL make it run cooler!!! The Twin Cams run hotter than the older Evo's like Mike has. The reasons are being tuned VERY lean for EPA standards and the Twin Cams use oil jets under the pistons. These jets squirt oil onto the bottom of the piston to help cool it. Stock engines run sooooo lean that they cause excessive heat.....here is the oxymoron....because they are so lean, HD designed the oil jets to cool the pistons....what actually happens is the pistons HEAT the oil!!!....tune the engine, richen it up, and the piston cools down, now, the oil can do its job and cool the piston....double cooling effect. Proper tuning will decreae oil temp by as much as 20-25 degress and promote longer, more reliable engine life...and you will FEEL the power increase.....generally, depending on the bike, combination of pipes and air cleaner, and how good the guy tuning the bike is, you can expect 10-15 hp & tq increase.
Will installing gutted mufflers on a 2008 H-D Nightster with a 1200cc fuel injected engine cause any problems?
David
I swapped off the stock mufflers for a set of stock gutted mufflers from a Fat Boy. They fit perfect and the crossover lined up just fine. I am just wondering if the different mufflers can cause any kinds of problems such as burned exhaust valves or the like. And would I see much benefit from a stage one tune?
Answer
You don't HAVE to remap the injection with a muffler change alone....BUT...it WILL run better. HD's run extremely lean, which make them run hot, remapping the injection will cool the engine and oil temp and make it run better....Adding an air cleaner as well will REQUIRE remapping.
Also, adding an air cleaner, exhaust, and having it TUNED with the Screamin Eagle Super Tuner will give you a an additional 12-15 hp.
A Stage 1 download from HD with GUTTED mufflers will work minmal at best...HD's downloads are specifically for Screamin Eagle Air Cleaners and Screamin Eagle mufflers...a gutted stock muffler flows ALOT more air, and won't work with a download as well as SE mufflers...you will aslo most likely have alot of exhaust popping on engine decel...getting too much fuel at 0% throttle position.
Here are some clips from answers to similar questions...they are mainly in reference to a Big Twin, but all info is true for a Sportster as well.
They guys you were talking to are kind of right. With the pipes you are looking at, the bike really does need to have a hi-flo air cleaner put on. The dramatic decrease in restriction and the short length are the reason. Shorter pipes generally cause a drop in power in the low and mid-range, but can be compensated for somewhat by adding a set of Samson Torque Cones. The air cleaner will be needed to let more air in also to help compensate for the increase in exhaust flow. The Screamin Eagle air cleaner is ok, but the Arlen Ness Big Sucker (get the Stage 2 version) is better and about the same price. The S/E uses a shallow, dry filter material similar to a fiber glass mat, the Big Sucker uses a deeper K&N filter that flows considerably more air than the S/E. The stock HD air cleaner is THE most power restricting part on the bike. If you pull off the cover and look at the element, you will see why...it literally starves the engine for air, the reason for this from the factory...EPA NOISE pollution restrictions.
Now this is the MAJOR factor in the situation....DO NOT let anyone talk you into a Power Commander or Vance & Hines Fuel Pak, or ANY type of "piggy back"....FUEL...module!!!
You want the Screamin Eagle Super Tuner!!!
There are several reasons for this.
1. There is almost no room on a Softail to mount an add-on module, it basically get jammed and stuffed under the seat. "piggy back" modules plug in-line between the bikes computer and the wire harness, they are big and bulky and create extra wiring that is a ***** to mount, route and work around.
2. They do not do anything except control fuel, they have no timing or rev limit adjustments. The Power Commander 5 for 09-up bikes does have an Auto-Tune module that will allow the system to adjust the fuel by itself while you ride...BUT it is an additional couple hundred dollars, and you have to add yet another module to allow for timing adjustments...now you have 2 additional modules to try and figure how and where to mount. All together you will end up having arouns $1000 in modules.
The Screamin Eagle Super Tuner is basically nothing but software that reprograms the stock computer. It is a box that goes between 2 cables that link the bike to a PC. Once the computer is programmed and mapped on the dyno, you unplug it....nothing to mount. DO NOT LOSE THE BOX!!!!....if you do and need further tuning in the future for mods done later, you will have to buy another Tuner. The Tuner, once plugged in to a bike is "married" to that bike only and will not work on any other bikes. The Super Tuner has virtually unlimited tuning capabilites. It will allow for fuel mapping, accelerator pump feature for better throttle response, fully adjustable rev limit (do not rev a Softail past 6200, past that, the balancers spin too fast and can fly apart and destroy the engine), fully adjustable timing advance and curve tables, etc. I was amazed at what this thing can do when I was trained on it.
Having the timing properly set makes all the difference in the world. We tested bikes with stock timing and rev limits that had the fuel dialed in perfect for max power, then loaded in performance timing maps and had gains of 5-15 hp & tq.
And there is one more benefit to the Super Tuner compared to the others....The Tuner is about $400, the same as the others, bt no added expenses from add-on modules...its all built in.
Doing all of this, and having the bike tuned, WILL make it run cooler!!! The Twin Cams run hotter than the older Evo's like Mike has. The reasons are being tuned VERY lean for EPA standards and the Twin Cams use oil jets under the pistons. These jets squirt oil onto the bottom of the piston to help cool it. Stock engines run sooooo lean that they cause excessive heat.....here is the oxymoron....because they are so lean, HD designed the oil jets to cool the pistons....what actually happens is the pistons HEAT the oil!!!....tune the engine, richen it up, and the piston cools down, now, the oil can do its job and cool the piston....double cooling effect. Proper tuning will decreae oil temp by as much as 20-25 degress and promote longer, more reliable engine life...and you will FEEL the power increase.....generally, depending on the bike, combination of pipes and air cleaner, and how good the guy tuning the bike is, you can expect 10-15 hp & tq increase.
You don't HAVE to remap the injection with a muffler change alone....BUT...it WILL run better. HD's run extremely lean, which make them run hot, remapping the injection will cool the engine and oil temp and make it run better....Adding an air cleaner as well will REQUIRE remapping.
Also, adding an air cleaner, exhaust, and having it TUNED with the Screamin Eagle Super Tuner will give you a an additional 12-15 hp.
A Stage 1 download from HD with GUTTED mufflers will work minmal at best...HD's downloads are specifically for Screamin Eagle Air Cleaners and Screamin Eagle mufflers...a gutted stock muffler flows ALOT more air, and won't work with a download as well as SE mufflers...you will aslo most likely have alot of exhaust popping on engine decel...getting too much fuel at 0% throttle position.
Here are some clips from answers to similar questions...they are mainly in reference to a Big Twin, but all info is true for a Sportster as well.
They guys you were talking to are kind of right. With the pipes you are looking at, the bike really does need to have a hi-flo air cleaner put on. The dramatic decrease in restriction and the short length are the reason. Shorter pipes generally cause a drop in power in the low and mid-range, but can be compensated for somewhat by adding a set of Samson Torque Cones. The air cleaner will be needed to let more air in also to help compensate for the increase in exhaust flow. The Screamin Eagle air cleaner is ok, but the Arlen Ness Big Sucker (get the Stage 2 version) is better and about the same price. The S/E uses a shallow, dry filter material similar to a fiber glass mat, the Big Sucker uses a deeper K&N filter that flows considerably more air than the S/E. The stock HD air cleaner is THE most power restricting part on the bike. If you pull off the cover and look at the element, you will see why...it literally starves the engine for air, the reason for this from the factory...EPA NOISE pollution restrictions.
Now this is the MAJOR factor in the situation....DO NOT let anyone talk you into a Power Commander or Vance & Hines Fuel Pak, or ANY type of "piggy back"....FUEL...module!!!
You want the Screamin Eagle Super Tuner!!!
There are several reasons for this.
1. There is almost no room on a Softail to mount an add-on module, it basically get jammed and stuffed under the seat. "piggy back" modules plug in-line between the bikes computer and the wire harness, they are big and bulky and create extra wiring that is a ***** to mount, route and work around.
2. They do not do anything except control fuel, they have no timing or rev limit adjustments. The Power Commander 5 for 09-up bikes does have an Auto-Tune module that will allow the system to adjust the fuel by itself while you ride...BUT it is an additional couple hundred dollars, and you have to add yet another module to allow for timing adjustments...now you have 2 additional modules to try and figure how and where to mount. All together you will end up having arouns $1000 in modules.
The Screamin Eagle Super Tuner is basically nothing but software that reprograms the stock computer. It is a box that goes between 2 cables that link the bike to a PC. Once the computer is programmed and mapped on the dyno, you unplug it....nothing to mount. DO NOT LOSE THE BOX!!!!....if you do and need further tuning in the future for mods done later, you will have to buy another Tuner. The Tuner, once plugged in to a bike is "married" to that bike only and will not work on any other bikes. The Super Tuner has virtually unlimited tuning capabilites. It will allow for fuel mapping, accelerator pump feature for better throttle response, fully adjustable rev limit (do not rev a Softail past 6200, past that, the balancers spin too fast and can fly apart and destroy the engine), fully adjustable timing advance and curve tables, etc. I was amazed at what this thing can do when I was trained on it.
Having the timing properly set makes all the difference in the world. We tested bikes with stock timing and rev limits that had the fuel dialed in perfect for max power, then loaded in performance timing maps and had gains of 5-15 hp & tq.
And there is one more benefit to the Super Tuner compared to the others....The Tuner is about $400, the same as the others, bt no added expenses from add-on modules...its all built in.
Doing all of this, and having the bike tuned, WILL make it run cooler!!! The Twin Cams run hotter than the older Evo's like Mike has. The reasons are being tuned VERY lean for EPA standards and the Twin Cams use oil jets under the pistons. These jets squirt oil onto the bottom of the piston to help cool it. Stock engines run sooooo lean that they cause excessive heat.....here is the oxymoron....because they are so lean, HD designed the oil jets to cool the pistons....what actually happens is the pistons HEAT the oil!!!....tune the engine, richen it up, and the piston cools down, now, the oil can do its job and cool the piston....double cooling effect. Proper tuning will decreae oil temp by as much as 20-25 degress and promote longer, more reliable engine life...and you will FEEL the power increase.....generally, depending on the bike, combination of pipes and air cleaner, and how good the guy tuning the bike is, you can expect 10-15 hp & tq increase.
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